When Margaret Cho brings her Beautiful tour to Alberta in September, she brings not only her own beauty, but the beauty of Ian Harvie. Harvie is unique in being the only known Female-To-Male Transgendered comic in North America.
“I had talked to [Cho] on MySpace and then I met her when she was doing a rehearsal set in a little gay bar in front of maybe 20 people there, and afterwards I went up and said hello to her and she knew me from MySpace,” explained Harvie. “We ended up chitchatting and she asked see my reel. She said ‘you’re funny why don’t you open for me?’ It’s not your typical Hollywood story. I had been doing comedy for five years in Maine and decided to go to LA and see what’s what. I knew I had got as far as I could in the New England area and if I wanted to go further I had to take that next step and go to either New York or LA, and LA was warm. It was the biggest comedy gift I have ever gotten in my life - to meet her, and for her to offer me the job of opening for her. Who has a story like that? I feel really, really grateful for that.”
While it would seem obvious for a trans comic to perform for a gay audience, Harvie admits to some major performance anxiety at first.
“When I first started touring with her almost two years ago I was petrified of queer audiences. My comedy career grew up in mainstream, non-queer comedy clubs. I actually had a fear of playing in front of queer people because I think queer people are a lot smarter and have had to process a lot more than non-queer people. Your very typical straight people who by default have never questioned their sexuality and never had to question themselves, process less than people who have had to question their sexual orientation or their gender - people who have had to do that are smarter. So I thought, these people are smart and they aren’t going to think I am funny. But Margaret totally settled me down. She said, listen, there is nobody out there doing what you are doing, and they are going to be so appreciative for the representation. And trust me, I am funny, I know what is funny, and you are fucking funny. She plays for some big audiences, and to go in front of thousands and have her talk me off the ledge a few times before a big show was pretty intense. But I got over it pretty quickly because she was right. The T part of the LGBTQ community had no representation in Female-To-Male transgendered comics that are getting up there and sharing their experiences in a way that everybody can wrap their heads around. Now I am comfortable in front of all audiences.”
As an out trans man, Harvie is vocal about rights within the community and includes aspects of that in his show. He spoke to us about trans issues in detail.
“It is really sad that the Human Rights Commission took trans language out of significant laws that were trying to be passed about same sex [couples]. Barney Frank, a congressman from Massachusetts had all transgendered and transsexual language removed from the bill because he felt if they just said gay and lesbian they could get it passed, but people don’t understand trans people so let’s remove that language and we’ll include them sometime later. It’s really fucked up. People don’t understand that transgender is when someone doesn’t feel quite right in their skin and they would like to make some modifications to themselves. Who hasn’t felt that way? Look at Hollywood, almost everybody here has felt that way, there are plastic surgeons on every corner. Somebody doesn’t feel right about their lips or their chest, gay men are getting pectoral muscle implants, ass implants, you want your dick bigger we will make it a little bit bigger; you want labiaplasty we will tighten up that vagina and put a drawstring in there; something about their body they weren’t 100% comfortable with. Some may elect to do something about it and some may not. In my case and other people’s cases, it happens to be about my biological sex. I am actually fine with my lower half, and if you ask every trans man or woman, we all feel slightly different about things. Some trans women really feel they need to have a vagina created, some trans guys are like me, they don’t care about their lower half, they just want to get rid of their chest, or go on hormones. No matter what they decide to do, and what surgery and hormones they elect to have, they are who they are. It isn’t any different than any other person, but there is so much shame about genitalia and sex and it is hard to talk about.”
Harvie underwent surgery on March 6th of this year to remove his breasts, but still has a female lower body. The physical change has lead to some changes in his comedy routine.
“I now have a flat chest but before surgery I had a huge chest and it was super noticeable. So I was very often passed as a dyke, which is totally fine with me; I grew up in the lesbian community because I liked girls and we shared that we were female-bodied,” he recalled. “My material and how I approach the audience is slightly different. To come out and say ‘I want to be a dude,’ people’s little mouse ears go up and they really listen.“
“Now I have chin hair and a flat chest and there is nothing really girlish about me anymore, except I have some effeminate mannerisms, but that still just passes me as a gay guy. Before I was this dyke coming out saying I want to be a dude, and now I am onstage and people don’t believe I was ever female. It was really weird. When I had a chest I could talk about things in a way that I could switch things in that were dyke oriented and get away with it. Now if I say something with the same exact language coming out of this visual body might come across as misogynist now. As a female bodied person with a chest I could say ‘those bitches’ in my routine and kind of get away with things that I can’t now because I sound like a total misogynist asshole.”
“So I lost some material pre-surgery and I have gained a ton of material because I have so many new experiences. The hardest was when I decided I was going to come out as trans on stage. I was so nervous about it and the audience picked up how nervous I was. People in an audience can read if you are afraid, …they know it, you know it, and it just doesn’t go well. That has been the worst experience. But I have not yet been bashed verbally to my knowledge, or physically. I feel really lucky that I haven’t had any of those experiences.”
“My work, as far as trans rights and the visibility that hopefully I am creating, Margaret and I talk about this a lot. Sometimes trans people are the most visible part of the community and sometimes the most at risk for violence. So I hope that my talking about and being so out about my being trans will raise the level of consciousness among all of the queer community so that the T is really included in GLBTQ.”
He has also noticed changes in life in general, which have made it that much more important to be out on stage.
“I don’t ever want to be just a guy, passed as just a guy, and that is what is happening to me on the street. I am not going to walk up to people on the street and tap them on the shoulder and say ‘I’m trans.’ Being on stage is the only place I get to be a trans man, on the street I am just a man and it is kind of upsetting actually. So for now I am enjoying being a tranny comic, it is where I can be recognized. The reason why I want the separation between trans man and just a man is because there are a lot of things that I never really wanted in being a man. I don’t want male privilege, it is something being given to me whether I like it or not. I didn’t have these feelings to be a man because I wanted higher pay or because I wanted to be part of the men’s club and be taken in by guys. I went to Alaska with Margaret on tour a couple of months ago. I went to go work out in the hotel gym and it was a separate men’s gym and I was totally part of the guys club. I get talked to differently. If my girlfriend asks a question and a man answers it, they will look at me to answer it. It is really weird what is happening and I never wanted any of it but I can’t deny it when it happens. So I would rather be a minority, be really out about being trans and let people know I am not just a guy who accepts all the things that are given to him. I feel like that is an important separation for me.”
Being a trans comic hasn’t always been easy.
“I recently performed at The Improv club in Hollywood, and the guy who introduced me said ‘you aren’t going to believe this guy, he used to be a girl.’ I got up there and couldn’t read the audience. You have to get the audience on board with you before you start laying heavy shit on them. …I couldn’t get up there and do any other material but address that. I hate this word and I don’t feel this way about myself, but for them it was too freakish that it was a possibility and they couldn’t get their heads to the other side of it. So I have had hard experiences on stage.“
“I also remember in Maine going on stage and as I was passing one guy I could swear he said ‘fucking dyke.’ I didn’t think he was an asshole or a jerk or to make an example of him. But I knew exactly where he was in the audience and decided ‘I am going to make that fucker laugh’ and I did. After the set, the guy came up and said ‘Uhh, dude, or whatever, you were really funny’ and he gave me one of those guy hugs where you shake their hand and pat them on the back. And I knew that I was supposed to be doing this.”
Harvie has had an easier time than many other trans people, famous and unknown. Writer Patrick Califia was ostracized by the LGBT community when he transitioned to a man in the mid 1990’s, while FTM adult star Buck Angel, a masculine FTM who still has a vagina seems to strike a nerve with some.
“I think that people who have the hardest time with it in the queer community are lesbians or womyn who love womyn, and it tends to be - and this is my own personal experience - a generational thing. …What’s interesting is [Buck Angel] pioneered dyke porn and is now a trans man, and I know he struggled with people getting upset with it. He also is a father, he and his partner both had babies and went back on testosterone.”
“Some trans guys are upset with him because he is so open about his body, about his sexuality, and who he is and there is a lot of FTM guys and butch identified female body people who have some very rigid rules about their bodies. They feel they are also being exposed when someone is being that open about their sexuality. I can see why that might happen, however Buck has said he is not representing anybody but himself. That is really important to note. Nobody gets that upset about any other adult film star. The positive side of it is that he has opened up a lot of people, male and female bodied, gay and straight, to understanding that they might be attracted to either femininity or masculinity and it comes in all different types of body forms. Someone can be attracted to Buck who is masculine as hell, but you get to his lower body and he has a vagina and they wonder ‘what does that mean about me?’ It is upsetting to some that they are made to re-question their sexuality if they are attracted to someone like that. Even the people who say negative things, it is forcing them to question themselves, their bodies, what they define their orientation as, and that is positive. People might be saying negative things but what is happening is only positive because it is going to create a dialogue. Some people are offended because they think he is representing them.”
“People thank me for representing the trans community but ultimately we are only representing ourselves. I am giving visibility to a community that has sometimes been left behind but at the same time if I were to say something controversial I could be excommunicated the next day as well. It is really interesting how you can be adored if you are agreed with and not adored if you are not.”
The 40-year-old credits his family’s support, as well as changes in perception of trans people as the big reasons why he has felt so comfortable with himself.
”The hardest part was with my parents who have been amazing about all of this, they had to deal with a lot. I have a gay brother and I told them I liked girls and wanted to be a dude. They are 70 years old and for them to be so flexible, I am really lucky. I am one of these people who for some reason have not encountered a lot of adversity. Because of the timing of my coming out there are a lot of young people that are already there, their head is already around it they are super liberal and smart. It tends to be an older group of people that it is a little bit more difficult for them to shift and understand. I have had an easier time because of people like Pat coming out and paving the way for me. The Trans Community is huge in San Francisco and there is a giant overflow of good energy so I can’t say I have had a real difficult time. I don’t even get hate mail, I don’t have stuff happening and I am grateful for that but I realize that is not happening with the rest of the world. People are excommunicated from their families and I think it is horrible.”
While much of our conversation has dealt with fairly serious issues, on stage Harvie’s show is hilarious and fun, as the YouTube clips on his website demonstrate. While he has dreams of hosting a gay themed late night talk show, in the meantime his focus remains on making people both laugh and learn while on stage.
“There is no other trans man stand up comic in the States that I know of, and I’ve looked! MySpace, Facebook, everywhere. Sure there are butch dyke stand up comics and trans women performers who are doing stand up. I do have a mission with what I am doing. I don’t think I am just a comic, being a comic and trans is importantly connected. Hopefully people have been educated and can laugh about it from my show. Then the next time they meet or hear about something transsexual, they second-guess the words that come out of their mouth. It is so important: education, visibility and laughter combined, is one of the most powerful ways to create change.”
Ian Harvie
On tour with Margaret Cho
Friday September 5th – Edmonton
Sunday September 7th – Calgary
www.ianharvie.com
Article written with files from Mercedes Allen.
